WHAT'S RIGHT WITH PEOPLE ?

[Glenn "Lee" Howden]

What do you like about people?

What makes you happy?

If you are into cultural anthropology, what behaviors do you see in other cultures that are ecologically sound and promote a sense of well being amongst it's members?

[Caroline Wickham-Jones]

Glad you found it interesting - of course I am biased, but there is a huge amount of fascinating detail about the peoples who lived in Europe before farming came - but it tends to be ignored because the past we present is by and large the past of the farmers...
And I think we have much to learn by looking further back

Samuel Harvest Bouquet said:

Thankyou for taking the time to write and the links.

Caroline, when I was a teenager I sailed out to Australia/NZ from the UK with my father. I met a guy selling wooden trains he'd made in a Sydney subway. He said his grandfather was Spanish and his grandmother was from a tribe somewhere on the west coast of Chile. He told a story from the maternal line about a tribe of tall white people that arrived by boat to the swamp and had susequently been eaten!!
It really blew my mind at the time. Although I knew of the Viking sagas, I suddenly realised that there was life before fourteen hundred and ninety two when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Whether true or not, the 'possibility' that people did carry on down the Eastern seaboard and round the bottom....!

With regard to the peoples around the Beagle Straight (some are being supported in hunger strike by politicians at the mo? I dont know their name) it is similar to the Aboriginal people of Tasmania, cut off from the mainland by the rising sea levels. They were considered primitive (being reliant on lightening for fire for example) but they were running round in basically pants and had very advanced survival mechanisms.

Sorry there are no links to reference. I just wanted to say thanks for writing! I never before imaged people living on the margins of Europe, Northern Europe or 'Doggerland' with moving ice and glaciers.

[Caroline Wickham-Jones]

Yup that is right - I do not think we should underestimate the power of memory and story.
Let me know what you think of my book, I am already getting more and more info - can see I will have to produce the expanded version - people are suggesting all sorts of things I had not thought of.



wolfbird said:

Britain's drowned world, http://www.channel4.com/programmes/time-team-specials/4od#2922370
was great. I knew there was a land bridge under the North Sea, but hadn't appreciated that it might have been the very best environment for the hunter-gatherers to have lived... and the speed with which it was inundated was also remarkable, also the mesolithic underwater site, etc. all very interesting...

The football field timeline was jaw dropping, just one step takes us all the way back to the neolithic... makes one realise what a tiny blip our industrial soceity really is..

But what strikes me most, there are so MANY stories, like the Cormorants of Utrøst, that it begins to appear to me that they MUST have been handed down from the real witnessing of the events... by word of mouth, over maybe 8000 years ? is that about right ? - before they were written, and then assumed ( by us ) to be fanciful 'fairy tales' without any basis in real events...

As you said, so much has all been staring us in the face, and we didn't see it....

I'm looking forward to reading your book, and the Doggerland book, thanks for pointing me towards those, as well.

Caroline Wickham-Jones said:

Glad you found it interesting - of course I am biased, but there is a huge amount of fascinating detail about the peoples who lived in Europe before farming came - but it tends to be ignored because the past we present is by and large the past of the farmers...
And I think we have much to learn by looking further back

Samuel Harvest Bouquet said:

Thankyou for taking the time to write and the links.

Caroline, when I was a teenager I sailed out to Australia/NZ from the UK with my father. I met a guy selling wooden trains he'd made in a Sydney subway. He said his grandfather was Spanish and his grandmother was from a tribe somewhere on the west coast of Chile. He told a story from the maternal line about a tribe of tall white people that arrived by boat to the swamp and had susequently been eaten!!
It really blew my mind at the time. Although I knew of the Viking sagas, I suddenly realised that there was life before fourteen hundred and ninety two when Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Whether true or not, the 'possibility' that people did carry on down the Eastern seaboard and round the bottom....!

With regard to the peoples around the Beagle Straight (some are being supported in hunger strike by politicians at the mo? I dont know their name) it is similar to the Aboriginal people of Tasmania, cut off from the mainland by the rising sea levels. They were considered primitive (being reliant on lightening for fire for example) but they were running round in basically pants and had very advanced survival mechanisms.

Sorry there are no links to reference. I just wanted to say thanks for writing! I never before imaged people living on the margins of Europe, Northern Europe or 'Doggerland' with moving ice and glaciers.

[Suzanne Duarte]

What do I like about people? I like our capacity to be honest and self-reflective, to question our own assumptions, to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves too seriously, to be still and open and listen to the nonhuman world and the stars, to find our own soul's calling and to have the grit to follow it in spite of social taboos, to sing and dance and make rituals of reverent thanks for the gifts of Mother Nature, to fall in love with animals and practice interspecies loving kindness, to be cooperative and generous and co-creative with fellow humans in community. Doing these things myself makes me happy.

Helena Norberg-Hodge provides a beautiful description of the Ladakhi way of life prior to the intrusion of the global economy in this long article: Stories Of Belonging 9/10/10. This is the first 3 paragraphs:

"In the industrialised world today, most of us feel overwhelmed by a seemingly endless series of crises. The climate is changing; conflicts rage around the world; the global economy may be on the verge of collapse. On a more personal level, we are experiencing what appears to be an epidemic of psychological disorders. Few of us are completely untouched by the increasing rates of depression and a pervading sense of isolation and low self-esteem.

"It is clear that something needs to happen quite soon, and on a large scale, if we are to avoid further social, economic and ecological breakdown. I am convinced that the solutions are simpler and more easily attainable than most people believe, but unfortunately, certain deeply held assumptions prevent us from seeing some rather obvious truths. So in order to be part of the solution we first need to be able to look at the situation with open eyes. This requires a" big picture" approach, one that is not so readily available.

"The dominant view promoted in mainstream media and academia is narrow and reinforces the notion that the problems we face are rooted in an innate human tendency towards competitiveness, dissatisfaction and greed. I grew up believing this to be true—thinking that in order to make any positive changes we had to somehow overcome these “faults” in our human nature. It wasn’t until I was in my late twenties that I had an experience that helped me to question these assumptions. I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people. This commercial culture, which is central to our economic system, is being foisted on societies all over the world, generating insecurity and greed and contributing to a whole range of social and environmental problems…."

[david w walters]

"I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people."
-Do you think a response to our "consumer culture" is reflected in the rise of fundamentalism in Islam and Christianity? Just wondering....
Suzanne Duarte said:

What do I like about people? I like our capacity to be honest and self-reflective, to question our own assumptions, to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves too seriously, to be still and open and listen to the nonhuman world and the stars, to find our own soul's calling and to have the grit to follow it in spite of social taboos, to sing and dance and make rituals of reverent thanks for the gifts of Mother Nature, to fall in love with animals and practice interspecies loving kindness, to be cooperative and generous and co-creative with fellow humans in community. Doing these things myself makes me happy.

Helena Norberg-Hodge provides a beautiful description of the Ladakhi way of life prior to the intrusion of the global economy in this long article: Stories Of Belonging 9/10/10. This is the first 3 paragraphs:

"In the industrialised world today, most of us feel overwhelmed by a seemingly endless series of crises. The climate is changing; conflicts rage around the world; the global economy may be on the verge of collapse. On a more personal level, we are experiencing what appears to be an epidemic of psychological disorders. Few of us are completely untouched by the increasing rates of depression and a pervading sense of isolation and low self-esteem.

"It is clear that something needs to happen quite soon, and on a large scale, if we are to avoid further social, economic and ecological breakdown. I am convinced that the solutions are simpler and more easily attainable than most people believe, but unfortunately, certain deeply held assumptions prevent us from seeing some rather obvious truths. So in order to be part of the solution we first need to be able to look at the situation with open eyes. This requires a" big picture" approach, one that is not so readily available.

"The dominant view promoted in mainstream media and academia is narrow and reinforces the notion that the problems we face are rooted in an innate human tendency towards competitiveness, dissatisfaction and greed. I grew up believing this to be true—thinking that in order to make any positive changes we had to somehow overcome these “faults” in our human nature. It wasn’t until I was in my late twenties that I had an experience that helped me to question these assumptions. I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people. This commercial culture, which is central to our economic system, is being foisted on societies all over the world, generating insecurity and greed and contributing to a whole range of social and environmental problems…."

[Suzanne Duarte]

David, I think it's considerably more complicated than a straight linear relationship between consumer culture and fundamentalism. I look at the crises in the world at this time as aspects of a major evolutionary crisis for our species (which is affecting all the other species too). This evolutionary crisis can also be seen as a major 'paradigm change.' My essay on this explains that periods of major paradigm change tend to be fraught with upheaval. During the last such period, the 'Copernican revolution,' the Inquisition (another case of 'fundamentalism') entered its most brutal phase, along with religious wars and general madness in Europe. Challenges to 'traditional' worldviews do tend to create reactionary fervor because people feel so threatened and insecure in their belief systems, so they look for scapegoats. But the forces that are shaking things up are actually much larger and more inexorable than their belief systems can account for.

However, I do agree with Helena Norberg-Hodge that the global economy and its consumer culture has had very unfortunate and detrimental effects on sustainable subsistence cultures, such as that of Ladakh. And it is the worldview behind the global economy that has to change if our species is to survive.


david w walters said:

"I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people."
-Do you think a response to our "consumer culture" is reflected in the rise of fundamentalism in Islam and Christianity? Just wondering.... Suzanne Duarte said:

What do I like about people? I like our capacity to be honest and self-reflective, to question our own assumptions, to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves too seriously, to be still and open and listen to the nonhuman world and the stars, to find our own soul's calling and to have the grit to follow it in spite of social taboos, to sing and dance and make rituals of reverent thanks for the gifts of Mother Nature, to fall in love with animals and practice interspecies loving kindness, to be cooperative and generous and co-creative with fellow humans in community. Doing these things myself makes me happy.

Helena Norberg-Hodge provides a beautiful description of the Ladakhi way of life prior to the intrusion of the global economy in this long article: Stories Of Belonging 9/10/10. This is the first 3 paragraphs: "In the industrialised world today, most of us feel overwhelmed by a seemingly endless series of crises. The climate is changing; conflicts rage around the world; the global economy may be on the verge of collapse. On a more personal level, we are experiencing what appears to be an epidemic of psychological disorders. Few of us are completely untouched by the increasing rates of depression and a pervading sense of isolation and low self-esteem.

"It is clear that something needs to happen quite soon, and on a large scale, if we are to avoid further social, economic and ecological breakdown. I am convinced that the solutions are simpler and more easily attainable than most people believe, but unfortunately, certain deeply held assumptions prevent us from seeing some rather obvious truths. So in order to be part of the solution we first need to be able to look at the situation with open eyes. This requires a" big picture" approach, one that is not so readily available.

"The dominant view promoted in mainstream media and academia is narrow and reinforces the notion that the problems we face are rooted in an innate human tendency towards competitiveness, dissatisfaction and greed. I grew up believing this to be true—thinking that in order to make any positive changes we had to somehow overcome these “faults” in our human nature. It wasn’t until I was in my late twenties that I had an experience that helped me to question these assumptions. I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people. This commercial culture, which is central to our economic system, is being foisted on societies all over the world, generating insecurity and greed and contributing to a whole range of social and environmental problems…."

[Glenn "Lee" Howden]

To Suzanne Duarte,

Thanks for bring up our need to belong. I think that our need to belong is much stronger than our competitive instincts. We are social animals to the max.

The negative consequences of this need can be seen in the right wing evangelical movements in the States where people will internalize irrational and socially destructive stories just so that they can become members of a group.

Confronting them head on just strengthens their resolve, but that is their problem.

My problem, and perhaps our problem, has been to be as aware of destructive behaviors as possible and still not fall into the habits like cynicism and nihilism.

Us humans really aren't that bad. Our capacity for play and pleasure may be equaled only by dolphins. We can tell stories that thrill us, inspire us, amuse us and educate at the same time. We can communicate lovely melodies through the generations. We can whistle while we work. We can get pleasure by observing the natural world. We can get together and dance and sing our way into a group consciousness where our differences become unimportant and old grudges are forgotten.

[david w walters]

The relationship between consumer culture and fundamentalism was a notion I borrowed from Spencer Well's book, "Pandora's Seed....the unforeseen cost of civilization". The point of his book fit very well with your " big picture" approach that you articulated as such:
"I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people. This commercial culture, which is central to our economic system, is being foisted on societies all over the world, generating insecurity and greed and contributing to a whole range of social and environmental problems…."

Your statement sums up the problem very neatly (...and correctly), and though the relationship between consumer culture and fundamentalism isn't linear, it seems that many in our world have found solace in fundamental religion. They find comfort in their myth as they see the world around them out of control (-evil).
"Some writers on this subject refer to worldviews and paradigms as stories or narratives that govern our perceptions and behaviors, which is a more fluid, less solid conception. Stories seem easier to change!"
-Paradigm Change
That's how it seems to me anyway.....

[Suzanne Duarte]

Glenn, I agree with your every point! I've read quite a lot of stories and reports lately about how people are so alienated in the consumer culture that they surrender their critical intelligence in order to belong to groups that appear to hold transcendent values, but then get sucked into an evangelical 'herd mentality' and become uncritical 'true believers' defending the 'faith.' This is happening in spiritual circles that are not Christian, as well as those that are! (I won't mention any names.)

It's true that confronting such true believers only causes them to become more entrenched in their dogma. This is one of the interesting evolutionary challenges we are facing at this critical juncture in human history. We are facing it in every realm and on every level: politics (evangelical Republicans), economics (the market knows best, we must have growth), peak oil (technology will save us), climate change (it's natural, humans aren't to blame), ecology (anthropocentric arguments against the limits to growth, and for the superiority and exceptionalism of our species and civilization), etc., etc.

How not to fall into despair, cynicism and nihilism - when we recognize that the majority (at least in brainwashed Western societies) is stuck in ignorance - is indeed part of our evolutionary challenge. The Buddhist answer is to recognize our own propensity to fall into self-deception, to make appalling mistakes, and to revert to all those knee-jerk default settings that result in "destructive behaviors." When we can stop judging and condemning ourselves, we can start to have more sympathy and compassion for ourselves and others. When we can clearly perceive whether someone is entrenched and fixated, unable to hear, or open and receptive, then we can become more skillful in communicating our message.

Part of the skill is to discriminate whether a person or audience can take in the message of reality at all, and if so, how much reality they can take. (You probably know that famous quote by CG Jung: "People can't take too much reality," or something like that.) One of the things I've learned during 30 yrs of teaching is not to waste my time and breath with people who are so armored in defense mechanisms that they cannot be reached or helped - and not to get entangled with such people. Realized Buddhist teachers tend to give their best wisdom only to those who are receptive and can take it further.

It seems that one of the hardest habits to drop is the desire to "save everybody" - to find a solution to collective problems that will save all humans. I don't know where that came from. Whatever made any of us think it is possible to 'save everybody'? Is that a Christian thing? To me, at this time in human history when humans have so far exceeded the carrying capacity of the Earth, such a notion or belief is absurd. Rather, if we wish for humanity to survive this century and become a sustainable species on this planet, I think we'd better save our own sanity and help others who are capable of saving and retaining their own sanity.

I really like your last paragraph, Glenn. I think those are all part of the prescription for remaining sane. ;-) Thanks for starting this conversation.


Glenn "Lee" Howden said:

To Suzanne Duarte,

Thanks for bring up our need to belong. I think that our need to belong is much stronger than our competitive instincts. We are social animals to the max.

The negative consequences of this need can be seen in the right wing evangelical movements in the States where people will internalize irrational and socially destructive stories just so that they can become members of a group.

Confronting them head on just strengthens their resolve, but that is their problem.

My problem, and perhaps our problem, has been to be as aware of destructive behaviors as possible and still not fall into the habits like cynicism and nihilism.

Us humans really aren't that bad. Our capacity for play and pleasure may be equaled only by dolphins. We can tell stories that thrill us, inspire us, amuse us and educate at the same time. We can communicate lovely melodies through the generations. We can whistle while we work. We can get pleasure by observing the natural world. We can get together and dance and sing our way into a group consciousness where our differences become unimportant and old grudges are forgotten.

[Suzanne Duarte]

Hi David,

Yes, I agree: "many in our world have found solace in fundamental religion. They find comfort in their myth as they see the world around them out of control (-evil)." In becoming a "fundamentalist," I think people are seeking "ground," a foundation to stand on in a groundless world, or a world in which the ground is quaking and breaking up. But maybe they are also seeking belonging in a herd that seems to have something authoritative to hang onto, the "word of God." That's become a very slippery slope a this juncture, because herds are just as susceptible to mass psychosis as individuals are to personal psychosis. CG Jung studied and commented on the phenomenon of mass psychosis in Germany in WWII. In other words, such 'solace' is deceptive. It would seem that nothing can relieve us of the necessity to take responsibility for our own state of mind! In making the paradigm shift from predatory patriarchal authoritarianism, perhaps the new story needs to include the necessity to take responsibility for our own state of mind. ;-)


david w walters said:

The relationship between consumer culture and fundamentalism was a notion I borrowed from Spencer Well's book, "Pandora's Seed....the unforeseen cost of civilization". The point of his book fit very well with your " big picture" approach that you articulated as such:
"I came to realise that the source of the problem was not human nature; it was a consumer culture that was being imposed on people. This commercial culture, which is central to our economic system, is being foisted on societies all over the world, generating insecurity and greed and contributing to a whole range of social and environmental problems…."

Your statement sums up the problem very neatly (...and correctly), and though the relationship between consumer culture and fundamentalism isn't linear, it seems that many in our world have found solace in fundamental religion. They find comfort in their myth as they see the world around them out of control (-evil).
"Some writers on this subject refer to worldviews and paradigms as stories or narratives that govern our perceptions and behaviors, which is a more fluid, less solid conception. Stories seem easier to change!"
-Paradigm Change
That's how it seems to me anyway.....

[Alan Durant]

Its seems to me that people best learn by experience. As you say it is extremely difficult to convince people, even with the best arguments, who have entrenched positions. Whether we should try is open to debate. The problem seems to me that we may not have time for people to learn from experience and that their experience is often subverted by artificial realities such as television. Most people in the "developed world" no longer have an occupation that has any real worth. That said we don't want a year zero approach of trying to re-educate people to be peasants resulting in death and destruction.
If your expecting now some clever answer to these questions you will be disappointed. I could bang on about what I see as wrong with the world, even outline what might be a solution to the present situation, but how to motivate people to get their is another question. I fear that only real disaster will bring about change which means that for all our much vaunted brains we haven't learnt much.

Alan
Suzanne Duarte said:

Glenn, I agree with your every point! I've read quite a lot of stories and reports lately about how people are so alienated in the consumer culture that they surrender their critical intelligence in order to belong to groups that appear to hold transcendent values, but then get sucked into an evangelical 'herd mentality' and become uncritical 'true believers' defending the 'faith.' This is happening in spiritual circles that are not Christian, as well as those that are! (I won't mention any names.)

It's true that confronting such true believers only causes them to become more entrenched in their dogma. This is one of the interesting evolutionary challenges we are facing at this critical juncture in human history. We are facing it in every realm and on every level: politics (evangelical Republicans), economics (the market knows best, we must have growth), peak oil (technology will save us), climate change (it's natural, humans aren't to blame), ecology (anthropocentric arguments against the limits to growth, and for the superiority and exceptionalism of our species and civilization), etc., etc.

How not to fall into despair, cynicism and nihilism - when we recognize that the majority (at least in brainwashed Western societies) is stuck in ignorance - is indeed part of our evolutionary challenge. The Buddhist answer is to recognize our own propensity to fall into self-deception, to make appalling mistakes, and to revert to all those knee-jerk default settings that result in "destructive behaviors." When we can stop judging and condemning ourselves, we can start to have more sympathy and compassion for ourselves and others. When we can clearly perceive whether someone is entrenched and fixated, unable to hear, or open and receptive, then we can become more skillful in communicating our message.

Part of the skill is to discriminate whether a person or audience can take in the message of reality at all, and if so, how much reality they can take. (You probably know that famous quote by CG Jung: "People can't take too much reality," or something like that.) One of the things I've learned during 30 yrs of teaching is not to waste my time and breath with people who are so armored in defense mechanisms that they cannot be reached or helped - and not to get entangled with such people. Realized Buddhist teachers tend to give their best wisdom only to those who are receptive and can take it further.

It seems that one of the hardest habits to drop is the desire to "save everybody" - to find a solution to collective problems that will save all humans. I don't know where that came from. Whatever made any of us think it is possible to 'save everybody'? Is that a Christian thing? To me, at this time in human history when humans have so far exceeded the carrying capacity of the Earth, such a notion or belief is absurd. Rather, if we wish for humanity to survive this century and become a sustainable species on this planet, I think we'd better save our own sanity and help others who are capable of saving and retaining their own sanity.

I really like your last paragraph, Glenn. I think those are all part of the prescription for remaining sane. ;-) Thanks for starting this conversation.


Glenn "Lee" Howden said:

To Suzanne Duarte,

Thanks for bring up our need to belong. I think that our need to belong is much stronger than our competitive instincts. We are social animals to the max.

The negative consequences of this need can be seen in the right wing evangelical movements in the States where people will internalize irrational and socially destructive stories just so that they can become members of a group.

Confronting them head on just strengthens their resolve, but that is their problem.

My problem, and perhaps our problem, has been to be as aware of destructive behaviors as possible and still not fall into the habits like cynicism and nihilism.

Us humans really aren't that bad. Our capacity for play and pleasure may be equaled only by dolphins. We can tell stories that thrill us, inspire us, amuse us and educate at the same time. We can communicate lovely melodies through the generations. We can whistle while we work. We can get pleasure by observing the natural world. We can get together and dance and sing our way into a group consciousness where our differences become unimportant and old grudges are forgotten.

[Suzanne Duarte]

Hi Alan,

You say, "The problem seems to me that we may not have time for people to learn from experience and that their experience is often subverted by artificial realities such as television." And: "I fear that only real disaster will bring about change which means that for all our much vaunted brains we haven't learnt much."

I don't think we have time for people to learn from experience because our technological civilization is moving too fast for our brains, which developed over much longer time scales, over generations and centuries and millennia. I think that's one of the reasons we feel so groundless. Another is that our intelligence, not just our experience, has been subverted not only by television, but by the myths of our civilization - anthropocentric myths that humans are separate from and superior to Nature, that our civilization is also separate and superior, and all other cultures and ways of life are inferior, primitive. Oh, and then there's the progress myth - that our civilization represents and promises "progress" and "hope" for a better life. The myths and the speed of technological change have ungrounded us. We as a civilization are not grounded in the cyclic realities and wisdom -natural order - of the Earth. We do not accept earthly limitations, we are dreaming impossible dreams, and destroying the natural order as we try to fulfill those dreams.

Personally, I dread what's coming because it's so hard to wake people up. It's so hard for all of us to wake up from the cultural trance. I wrote an article about this last year called Waking Up in a Former Empire at the End of the Industrial Age, which discusses this difficulty, this conundrum that those of us who are relatively awake are facing.

I've been asking, "What's it going to take to wake people up?" for about 25 years, and I've been surprised how long it's taken for the dominoes to begin to fall. But I'm afraid that the dominoes have now begun to fall, and we will see disaster after disaster. I've been studying, writing and teaching about paradigm change since 1986, when I became involved in the Deep Ecology movement, where I encountered the first serious critique of industrial civilization since the Romantics and the Luddites. I think we have now collectively entered the ugly phase of paradigm change. All the shadows, ghosts and demons of our civilization are starting to come out with loud, extremist, irrational, deceptive, paranoid, hysterically delivered fear mongering that plays on primitive beliefs about reality within an uninformed public.

This is the reason I am so focused on the issue of sanity and ways to remain sane in the face of deindustrialization. My whole website is basically about this.

Suzanne


Alan Durant said:

Its seems to me that people best learn by experience. As you say it is extremely difficult to convince people, even with the best arguments, who have entrenched positions. Whether we should try is open to debate. The problem seems to me that we may not have time for people to learn from experience and that their experience is often subverted by artificial realities such as television. Most people in the "developed world" no longer have an occupation that has any real worth. That said we don't want a year zero approach of trying to re-educate people to be peasants resulting in death and destruction.
If your expecting now some clever answer to these questions you will be disappointed. I could bang on about what I see as wrong with the world, even outline what might be a solution to the present situation, but how to motivate people to get their is another question. I fear that only real disaster will bring about change which means that for all our much vaunted brains we haven't learnt much. Alan
Suzanne Duarte said:

Glenn, I agree with your every point! I've read quite a lot of stories and reports lately about how people are so alienated in the consumer culture that they surrender their critical intelligence in order to belong to groups that appear to hold transcendent values, but then get sucked into an evangelical 'herd mentality' and become uncritical 'true believers' defending the 'faith.' This is happening in spiritual circles that are not Christian, as well as those that are! (I won't mention any names.)

It's true that confronting such true believers only causes them to become more entrenched in their dogma. This is one of the interesting evolutionary challenges we are facing at this critical juncture in human history. We are facing it in every realm and on every level: politics (evangelical Republicans), economics (the market knows best, we must have growth), peak oil (technology will save us), climate change (it's natural, humans aren't to blame), ecology (anthropocentric arguments against the limits to growth, and for the superiority and exceptionalism of our species and civilization), etc., etc. How not to fall into despair, cynicism and nihilism - when we recognize that the majority (at least in brainwashed Western societies) is stuck in ignorance - is indeed part of our evolutionary challenge. The Buddhist answer is to recognize our own propensity to fall into self-deception, to make appalling mistakes, and to revert to all those knee-jerk default settings that result in "destructive behaviors." When we can stop judging and condemning ourselves, we can start to have more sympathy and compassion for ourselves and others. When we can clearly perceive whether someone is entrenched and fixated, unable to hear, or open and receptive, then we can become more skillful in communicating our message.

Part of the skill is to discriminate whether a person or audience can take in the message of reality at all, and if so, how much reality they can take. (You probably know that famous quote by CG Jung: "People can't take too much reality," or something like that.) One of the things I've learned during 30 yrs of teaching is not to waste my time and breath with people who are so armored in defense mechanisms that they cannot be reached or helped - and not to get entangled with such people. Realized Buddhist teachers tend to give their best wisdom only to those who are receptive and can take it further.

It seems that one of the hardest habits to drop is the desire to "save everybody" - to find a solution to collective problems that will save all humans. I don't know where that came from. Whatever made any of us think it is possible to 'save everybody'? Is that a Christian thing? To me, at this time in human history when humans have so far exceeded the carrying capacity of the Earth, such a notion or belief is absurd. Rather, if we wish for humanity to survive this century and become a sustainable species on this planet, I think we'd better save our own sanity and help others who are capable of saving and retaining their own sanity.

I really like your last paragraph, Glenn. I think those are all part of the prescription for remaining sane. ;-) Thanks for starting this conversation.


Glenn "Lee" Howden said:

To Suzanne Duarte,

Thanks for bring up our need to belong. I think that our need to belong is much stronger than our competitive instincts. We are social animals to the max.
The negative consequences of this need can be seen in the right wing evangelical movements in the States where people will internalize irrational and socially destructive stories just so that they can become members of a group.
Confronting them head on just strengthens their resolve, but that is their problem.

My problem, and perhaps our problem, has been to be as aware of destructive behaviors as possible and still not fall into the habits like cynicism and nihilism.

Us humans really aren't that bad. Our capacity for play and pleasure may be equaled only by dolphins. We can tell stories that thrill us, inspire us, amuse us and educate at the same time. We can communicate lovely melodies through the generations. We can whistle while we work. We can get pleasure by observing the natural world. We can get together and dance and sing our way into a group consciousness where our differences become unimportant and old grudges are forgotten.

[Glenn "Lee" Howden]

This is what I think we have going for us.

There are people all over the world that are aware of what is going on and are actively working on alternatives and new stories, and there are many more that would be open to viable alternatives and more fulfilling stories than the ones bombarding their consciousness now.

We now have an understanding of how cultures based on belonging and trust were sucker punched by, what I see as, psychopathic individuals and organizations. This knowledge can help us come up with new stories that have more resilience built into them without sacrificing the best parts of our nature.

I always liked the infinite amount of monkeys on an infinite amount of typewriters will type out all the works of Shakespeare if given an infinite amount of time. We are smarter than monkeys and maybe a bunch of people with a life affirming goal may be able to type out something adaptive and beautiful in the nick of time.

On a personal note, I made my living as a fixer and maker of things I had to except the fact that perfection is just a concept. If I hadn't I would have been paralyzed. Utopian dreams are a good way of setting goals, but they are just dreams.

I have to be truthful here. It wasn't my mind that made me realize that perfection was just a concept, it was my stomach. My mind enjoys wallowing in despair, but the rest of me is pretty much focused on survival.