Did things used to be better?

[Daniel Ross]

For some years now I have been sort of a Luddite. Occasionally I get into arguments about this with people, and hit a wall when they accuse me of dreaming of a non-existant pre industrial romantic ideal. So I was wondering can anyone here provide some evidence that things used to be better?

My views on this, as many views on complex matters can be, have been cobbled together somewhat haphazardly from experiences, evidence and various intuitions.

It began just over 5 years ago when I began an undergraduate course at a supposedly fine British university. It was maybe the most obvious time ever to be a Luddite. In the space of a few months filesharing and social networking had gone from being the preserve of a few nerds to being totally ubiquitous. 5 years prior a laptop had been a rare luxury for an undergraduate; affordable only to the rich for writing their essays on. Now it was very much essential. I watched those around me spend a great deal of their waking lives in their bedrooms, downloading films, clicking aimlessly on facebook, playing video games, and watching anonymously hardcore pornography; all of this was an easy alternative to talking to people they didn't really know. Facebook became the new social reality, breeding a new kind of vanity and self consciousness never before seem; literally 2-dimensional. I wondered how many similar revolutions had gone before,  which I had not been present to witness.

I read a few Kurt Vonnegut essays, and suddenly I was seeing the world through a Luddite's eyes; half convinced (which is a long way to be convinced of such a radical idea) that society could not cure itself of its ills until it returned to a more basic, primitive way of life.

But is there any evidence? you need evidence; one to prove to others that you are right; but more importantly to not actually be wrong yourself! Are these just the broodings of a dissaffected boy; or the naiive romanticisms of an idealist? Part of me blames not technology but the pathological agencies that wield it.

Or have I got it all wrong? is progress simply gruelling and problematic; afterall technology is an attempt by humans to solve problems. You see a problem and solve it. Thats natural. Thats right. Perhaps.

[Glenn "Lee" Howden]

Thanks for the link wolfbird

[Daniel Ross]

Glenn do you know who this E Richard Sorenson is? I'm reading that essay and enjoying it. He seems to be fairly savvy, and has several books being sold on amazon over a number of decades. Do you know who he is?

[Glenn "Lee" Howden]

Sorry Daniel, I don't know anything other than what I found in a quick internet search.

Daniel Ross said:

Glenn do you know who this E Richard Sorenson is?

[vera]

Sorenson is (was?) an anthropologist who did a lot of studies locally amongst foragers. I checked into him a while ago, and all I found was that he was 70 at the time of the big tsunami and was living in a beach hotel in ... Thailand? when the big one hit, and his relatives were looking for him.

[Colin Bartie]

hey he might no be deid yet....look on the bright side ye doom laden mongers...!

[vera]

Heh. So true... :-)

For the logicians amongst you folk, here is my latest on the logic of anti-power.
http://leavingbabylon.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/anti-power/

[vera]

Fantastic digging! Thank you wolfbird! So glad to hear it.

[Colin Bartie]

...kent he wasnae f'n deid....

[vera]

"If you have your own inner, personal, spiritual, magical, power, then power-over-others is boring and ridiculous."

I agree, but one of the realities of life is that there are always some individuals who for one reason or another are obsessed with power and status. When they are given free rein, they create a prison world for all of us. How do we extricate ourselves? How do we reverse this trend? That's what keeps me awake... :-)

Thanks for the repost, wolfbird.

[vera]

Well, here are some giant squid questions:

Could it be that the giant squid has not been brought into any sort of oversight because it is now the most powerful entity on the planet?

If the bankers and financiers are now the most powerful faction in the world, how is the campaign proposing to deal with the problem of power?

[vera]

"Change the culture, so that there are social taboos against those who seek power over others ? Probably takes a few generations to do that."

I believe that's it! Except we need to figure out how to do it fast. I am impressed by your perspicacity. But then, many tribals have known this for endless millennia... could be knowing this is in our bones? :-)

The silver thing... how is that supposed to get anything done? If we did what they say, silver prices would skyrocket, and the silver peddlers would get superrich. What am I missing?

[vera]

Hey wolfbird, thank you for the treasure trove of links! :-)

Korten is one of the people (I know about ) who is cognizant of the problem of power. Andy Schmookler, Daniel Quinn, and Jeff Vail are others. Only Vail has actually attempted a solution. Interesting there is a blog about the toxins of power. Though I think he is barking up the wrong tree: the toxic nature of power has to do with its quantity. Those who have too much get power-poisoning, and those who have too little suffer power deprivation. Any beneficial substance will turn into a toxin in sufficient excess...

 

Back to the solution: changing stories is not enough. Playing a game (in the sense of game theory) that advantages cooperators and disadvantages defectors is essential. On a level playing field, defectors take over every time.

Bloody revolution rarely works, though removing the top psychopaths is not a bad idea. The French cut off the heads and got Robespierre and Napoleon. It's easy to kill some humans, much harder to create an alternative that is ready to replace the old system with something significantly better.

Saving habitat is not possible without figuring out the problem of power and stopping the ratcheting economic intensification  which has become an earth-devouring machine, at least while humans are still around. Or do you figure otherwise?

P.S. If people crashed JP Morgan, they will be bailed out by further debasing the currency. What's the point?