Did things used to be better?

[Daniel Ross]

For some years now I have been sort of a Luddite. Occasionally I get into arguments about this with people, and hit a wall when they accuse me of dreaming of a non-existant pre industrial romantic ideal. So I was wondering can anyone here provide some evidence that things used to be better?

My views on this, as many views on complex matters can be, have been cobbled together somewhat haphazardly from experiences, evidence and various intuitions.

It began just over 5 years ago when I began an undergraduate course at a supposedly fine British university. It was maybe the most obvious time ever to be a Luddite. In the space of a few months filesharing and social networking had gone from being the preserve of a few nerds to being totally ubiquitous. 5 years prior a laptop had been a rare luxury for an undergraduate; affordable only to the rich for writing their essays on. Now it was very much essential. I watched those around me spend a great deal of their waking lives in their bedrooms, downloading films, clicking aimlessly on facebook, playing video games, and watching anonymously hardcore pornography; all of this was an easy alternative to talking to people they didn't really know. Facebook became the new social reality, breeding a new kind of vanity and self consciousness never before seem; literally 2-dimensional. I wondered how many similar revolutions had gone before,  which I had not been present to witness.

I read a few Kurt Vonnegut essays, and suddenly I was seeing the world through a Luddite's eyes; half convinced (which is a long way to be convinced of such a radical idea) that society could not cure itself of its ills until it returned to a more basic, primitive way of life.

But is there any evidence? you need evidence; one to prove to others that you are right; but more importantly to not actually be wrong yourself! Are these just the broodings of a dissaffected boy; or the naiive romanticisms of an idealist? Part of me blames not technology but the pathological agencies that wield it.

Or have I got it all wrong? is progress simply gruelling and problematic; afterall technology is an attempt by humans to solve problems. You see a problem and solve it. Thats natural. Thats right. Perhaps.

[vera]

Wow, I just noticed Eileen was mad enough to remove all her comments. Oh well. I guess the unciv forum does not provide fertile ground for techno-fantasies... DUH! :-)

[vera]

Having nothing better to do, I have run around the web a bit for more info. The picture is far worse than I thought. A blog with people's direct experiences is, for example, here: http://anticultist.wordpress.com/about/the-zeitgeist-movement-the-v...

 

Turns out, these shenanigans have been going on from the 60's or father back, the whole thing is veiled from the chumps who join, especially financially, a hidden for profit co exists in the shadow of the promoted non-profit (which is controlled by one man anyway, and whose profits mostly go to support his drawings and toy models), and this one man first sold (without saying anything to anyone) the original property supported by payments of the original few fans and bought another where the contract was changed and he was in complete control;  he also tried (and failed!) to trademark the term "resource-based economy" -- quite the example of the sharing spirit, eh? Apparently, their next goal, after making yet another movie (this one a hoped for blockbuster) is to build a demonstration city. Riiiiggghttt....

It started with a few young people who wanted to live like cap'n Kirk and his crew. Now they target all those folks who are angry with all the high-level global scamming. Zeitgeist addendum does a great job with the first 2 sections getting at this crowd, and by the time the Venus BS rolls by they are sucked in and cheering... very clever, actually. But for what?

[Colin Crewdson]

This where it gets more personal. Personally I like to use a spade in my garden rather than a rotovator, a bow saw rather than a chain saw and a sickle rather than a strimmer.  Not just because they make less noise, but because I'm using my labour rather than the ghosts of a whole gang of others in the making of the implement. (Well, obviously it's not quite that pure, because I can't make any of those tools myself, but simpler is fewer "ghosts".) Without attempting to big this up, when we're talking about the techno-culture we've arrived at in the west, these choices start to add up to a degree of subversion.

Similarly I suppose, walking or cycling somewhere is also an act of subversion when it replaces a trip by car or plane. Small choices maybe, but en masse they add up.
Victor Garrison said:

i agree with you but for others rephrase your question. is or isn't better is strictly a matter of opinion. you won't be able to prove a point if your sole reference is your's or someone else's opinion.

for me the question is: is technology applied to it's best use?

ask: are tech tools helping to empower people or enslave them? are the rights of the individual protected by technology or is individual's use of technology (facebook for example) a marketing tool to be capitalized on? is technology helping to redistribute wealth more justly or is it creating a greater gulf between the classes? 

many people don't really understand, or care, how information is being used and collected and how their use of tech is being exploited.

[Joe Banks]

Alan Macfarlane's marvelous. And very generous in what he puts out on the web.  http://www.alanmacfarlane.com/

wolfbird said:

Another comment re Daniel's initial post.

 

Seems to me, we are at Peak Good Life. In just 200 years, a tiny blip of time, the industrial revolution has meant that a small portion of the world's population have had an extraordinary opportunity. Liberty to indulge in all kinds of ventures. But that little blip is coming to an end. For a short time, for a privileged few, 'things' have been 'much better'. We have overshot, we have had the party. Next comes the consequences. 

 

There's a very fine scholarly discussion of the history of technology here, with many marvellous insights and philosophical questions to ponder

 

http://www.dspace.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/270

 

inquiring into the origins of the industrial revolution.

 

"This 6-series documentary films address the puzzle of the origins of Industrial Revolution. The central question: why did a scraggy little rainswept island off the coast of mainland Europe become the first major industrial centre, when so many other parts of the world, such as China, with its great history of inventions - looked more promising? The story starts on a single momentous day in Liverpool, a day that shows the best and worst aspects of the Industrial Revolution. We then look back 100 years, then 250, then 500, then 1000, until 10000 years – to the third millennium of the modern era."

[Colin Bartie]

THE HEROS THAT I SING

 

Ned Ludd and Captain Swing,

The Heroes that I sing.

They saw like us at last

The future and the past

Are just a great big con

For profits marching on!

[Fiona Cooper]

Blimey, I'd never heard of the Venus Project, but the website looks like an ad for a new building development in Dubai.... bizarre... if this is the answer then what the f%$* is the question?!

 

Kinda funny that all those comments have disappeared, but most of them are still there in Vera and Wolfbird's replies ;-) lol.  I'm missing the techno-troll bit though.